The Green Traveller Interview: André Schwämmlein, Founder and CEO, Flix

Green Traveller's Richard Hammond chats to André Schwämmlein, co-founder and Chief Executive Officer of Flix (which runs FlixBus and FlixTrain) about the effect of the fluctuating oil prices, issues regarding infrastructure, the potential for Flix to use Le Shuttle Eurotunnel more often, and where he sees Flix in five years' time.

Green Traveller's Question: A lot of our listeners and viewers are already signed up to Flixbus – they love the service, the convenience, but there are a few things I just want to ask you about future of what you're trying to do in some of the services. As you know, we've travelled a lot on FlixBus and had brilliant experiences, but some of the things that we found that perhaps could be improved, we wonder if you might be able to address some of those things if possible. First up: infrastructure. Sometimes the bus stops to embark/disembark Flixbus aren’t in the main bus stations or where they are in bus stations, they’re not particularly nice places to be. That is out of your control to certain extent, but do you see that being in the future?

André Schwämmlein's answer: I think that's a super relevant point because yes, we are dependent on infrastructure.

A good thing is bus infrastructure is not that expensive compared to train stations and airports. And but it needs political support. So what we do now, we speak also in many markets for the industry and talk with communities, with cities, to explain what we're doing because there's some need for explanation. And then we see that over the last ten years that cities slowly start investing and they understand that you need a central location and you need decent infrastructure.

But it will take time. But we see improvements that cities are really putting some money behind it and that we can improve the service because many overlook that there are thousands of people coming to their city with busses, and that the first entrance is the station. And that's kind of also the image for the city. Okay.

Listen to Green Traveller's Richard Hammond's full interview with André Schwämmlein:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVtktFFHgDY

Green Traveller's Question: Many of us in the UK have watched Race Across The World – it's a very popular TV programme. We've seen Flix Buses appear in all sorts of unlikely places around the world. Have you got any plans for developing overnight sleeper services? Recently my family travel on the Traveliner service – the new overnight bus service between Brussels, Amsterdam and, Switzerland, and also into Barcelona. they've trialled that overnight service and managed to get legislation changed, I think, around the health and safety. Is that something you're looking to?

André Schwämmlein's answer:

I like a lot our night network. I'm actually, in a couple of weeks, I'm going to be in Vienna and come back to Munich. When on Night Bus. I'm actually a good sleeper in busses, even if it's not flat. But I know that many people are not. In Europe, it's regulatory wise tricky. And it's also the segment is not as large as in these emerging markets because you always compete with early or late flights. And it's a very hard business case. We looked into that because Flix has the capability to operate these services, market these services, and we have proven that in markets like Brazil, Chile and India. And we might look into that in the future. In Europe at the moment, our focus is rather expanding some these segments that we have not served yet properly. From our perspective, airport shuttles might be an example, maybe also strong investing in the UK. So this is something where we see more growth.

But we love the night product itself. And I'm also excited to see if companies try out stuff and to learn if there is something that is worth investing in.

Green Traveller's Question: When Macron deregulated the bus network in France, lots of people applauded it because it brought in more bus service to rural areas that helped people get around, but equally, others criticised it, saying that it was taking passengers away from the trains and actually the trains needed more investment and more passengers. How do you respond to that?

André Schwämmlein's answer:

It's a common debate: train versus bus. I don't agree with that debate. You see that flix is running Flix Train Services and Flix Bus, so we think it's a complementary product and it's not one or the other. It's both. And the good thing is on bus it's very, very little investment. It's almost no infrastructure. In some stations, it's fully private. So there is no subsidy money involved. And it's a complementary thing, especially also for rural areas for night services.

So I think it's a great complementary thing. If you look at the big discussions – and you're very right – in Germany, in France, the discussion was whether the opening of the bus service corrupts rail services; their reality is it never happened. Do we compete every day with rail? Absolutely. I want people that they say, “oh, I take a FlixBus or I take a SNCF, Deutsche Bahn”… I want that.

And I'm very well aware that people will not always say it's a Flix. Maybe it's even in lesser cases it's a Flix. But I want that alternative because it makes us better, it makes they trade better. And competition, I think, is there very beneficial for the consumer and then also for society.

Green Traveller's Question: Talking of overnight services; it's always a headache to travel from the UK across to Europe to plug in to the fantastic network that you have in Europe. And it requires going onto a ferry or the Eurotunnel. Do you have plans to increase the Eurotunnel aspect, because it is easier to do regarding the timings?

André Schwämmlein's answer:

Yes, absolutely. It's a very specific service that we run from the UK to the continent, especially through the Eurotunnel. We like the product prices… we even prefer it, clearly over the ferry. It's also a question of capacity and also availability of slots because also our passengers require certain reliability. And on the other hand, it's a competitive market where you have bus, you have rail, you have airlines to many main destinations. So we think when we started this link, we thought long term it will enable us to do the UK business in a more integrated way.

And this is something that is true. But the reality is also if you look at the UK, we have very much focused on expanding our presence in the UK towards rural areas, towards uncovered areas, towards airports. So that's the clear focus and the international link is due to the complexity of the infrastructure, something that we will maintain, but maybe not double and triple down.

Green Traveller's Question: In terms of the current issues with fuel prices, how do you see that playing out?

André Schwämmlein's answer: Presumably you're, you know, at risk, as every other transport operators to the fluctuations at the moment; the fuel price, obviously something that we discuss with our operators. The FlixBus services are run by independent companies that operate under our umbrella, our partners, they're around 1,000 partners out there that run fast globally.

And with them we discuss very intensively on what does it mean for production costs. The good thing is fuel is one element of production cost, but not the main and only element of production cost. And the good thing is we can spread the cost over at the end, 50 seats or 80 seats. Therefore we believe and we have seen that historically because we've seen it when the Ukraine full scale war started, when there was other fuel price hikes. Also in the past, especially in the US, for example, we see very clearly that higher fuel prices make the alternative as a car less attractive to coach travel. So our ambition is that we can maintain the price level that we have today and maybe get a bit incremental utilisation and be the affordable alternative for people who say, I usually would have taken my car, but with these fuel prices, I consider the coach.

So I would like to see that more an opportunity than a threat. But it's also a fear that we have to manage the cost side with our partners as well.

Green Traveller's Question: Finally, you are currently celebrating your fifth year anniversary, where do you see FlixBus in five years’ time?

André Schwämmlein's answer:

If you look at the UK, I'm super excited what the team has built here. The team has done a tremendous job of something where the people called us a bit crazy. I mean, we started this still in the pandemic. We opened shop here in the UK, with a very competitive environment, and an industry with a long tradition. We believe we bring something with us that can revitalize the industry, that can bring more passengers to coach anymore, than it was before.

And the team has delivered on that. And this is the ambition going forward. So I think if I look at the UK, we want to extend the network and really grow fast and we want to consistently deliver great services. I wanted the images that if you step out of Flixbus, you say that was a pleasant ride. I don't need an NPS (Net Promoter Score) of an iPhone, but what I need is that you like the product that you say next time: “I consider it as well”.

So if I've done that, if I've grown the network in five years, if you cover more cities and if the passengers did say next time, I would consider FlixBus, even if I don't take it this time because I take a rail on airplane, this is where I want to be.